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Michael Grace-Martin

~ Photography, Art & Life

Michael Grace-Martin

Category Archives: All

No Difference between Canon 5D and Canon 5D Mark II at 1600 & 3200 ISO

15 Wednesday Apr 2009

Posted by mgm in All, Reviews

≈ 5 Comments

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I just got a Canon 5D Mark II in my hands from an official Canon source that I shall not mention here. Here’s the question I had: is there any difference between the Canon 5D and the new Canon 5D Mark II at 1600 ISO and 3200 ISO? The 5D Mark II can also shoot at 6400, 12800 and 25600 ISO. But I wanted to know if any improvement had been made at the two highest ISOs they share: 1600 ISO and 3200 ISO.

I shot photos of one of my kids’ rain boots laying on the basement floor in very dim natural light. I used a Canon 24-70 f/2.8L lens on both the 5D and the 5D Mark II. I shot all photos at 51mm and f/2.8. All photos were shot in RAW format and then prepared for this report with Lightroom 2 and Photoshop CS2. Now, I know the 5D Mark II comes with some new fancy algorithms for reducing image noise. But if you shoot almost everything RAW, like I do, those don’t really matter much.

The one thing I did that some people might object to was crop the same amount of the scene for both cameras, even though a true 100% magnification section would take in less of the scene with the 5D Mark II compared to the 5D because it has 65% more pixels per image. (At the end of this test I’ll include one of those comparisons in case you’re interested.) My reasoning was that if I were looking at a specific object in a 5×7 print from each camera (for example, the bride’s face when she’s with the groom on the dance floor at the reception), I would be interested in the amount of noise I saw in her face in the 5×7 image, which would be the same size for each camera (more pixels doesn’t change the relative size of objects in the same 5×7 photo!).

Note: I didn’t use a tripod for these tests; so you can’t tell much about the resolution of details from these photos; but some camera movement will not affect the amount of digital noise in the image. I did no sharpening when preparing these images for this report.

At 1600 ISO

 

Canon 5D Mark II at 1600 ISO (a higher quality version of the above image)


Canon 5D at 1600 ISO (a higher quality version of the above image)

The details are a bit clearer in the Canon 5D Mark II shot; but it’s not clear whether that is due to the greater number of pixels in the 5D Mark II image, or whether there was more camera shake when I took the 5D shot. Regardless, the point of this test is to compare the amount of noise in the two images. Look at both the shadow and highlight areas. Do you see any significant difference? I don’t.

At 3200 ISO

 

Canon 5D Mark II at 3200 ISO (a higher quality version of the above image)

Canon 5D at 3200 ISO (a higher quality version of the above image)

Somewhat ironically, the image from the 5D has the better detail in this comparison, probably due to camera shake. But again, this would not affect image noise. So, if you look at the noise in the highlight and shadow areas, which camera is best? Is there really any difference?! I think it’s truly a dead heat.

Now, the 5D doesn’t offer the higher ISOs of the 5D Mark II….6400, 12800, and 25600 ISO. So, let’s look at a similar image taken at 6400 ISO with the 5D MarkII:


Canon 5D Mark II at 6400 ISO (a higher quality version of the above image)

Pretty noisey. Makes me wonder if I underexposed a shot at 3200 ISO with a 5D by one stop if I’d do any worse once the exposure level was raised in Lightroom?

Anyway, let me show you the 100% magnification crops for the 5D and 5D Mark II at 3200 ISO so you can see if it makes a difference–i.e., if it makes the difference between the 5D and 5D Mark II any clearer:

Canon 5D Mark II at 3200 ISO 100% magnification

(higher quality version of above image)

Canon 5D at 3200 ISO 100% magnification
(higher quality version of above image)

The 100% magnification view doesn’t make much of a difference to my eye. Let me know if you see something I’m not.

Conclusion

 

I think there’s the assumption out there in the Canon user community that the 5D Mark II probably has less image noise than the 5D at 1600 and 3200 ISO because it can take relatively “acceptable” photos at 6400 ISO, and can also take photos at 12800 and 25600 ISO. The results of this test have convinced me that this difference doesn’t actually exist. And unless I want to take a bunch of photos at 6400-25600 ISO, have an extra 8 megapixels per image, and shoot HD video, then a lightly used 5D selling for $1300 versus the 5D Mark II selling price of $2700, might just make a lot of sense!

-mgm

Addendum: I made the statement that the noise reduction in the 5D Mark II doesn’t affect RAW images. While I believe this is true, I can’t find mention of this in the 5D Mark II manual. So, in the interest of full disclosure, I will include the fact that the 5D Mark II’s high ISO noise reduction setting was at “standard” for these tests, which is second only to the highest setting: “strong” noise reduction.

Note: you may also be interested in my follow-up blog post describing my experience using the 5D Mark II to photograph a wedding.

Note 2: I finally got a hold of the 5D Mark II again and did a follow-up comparison of images at 1600 and 3200 ISO with those from my 5D. My results were a bit different this time…



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Photographing Fashion Shows – Lessons Learned

09 Thursday Apr 2009

Posted by mgm in All, Commentary, Fashion/Glamour, MGM's Photos

≈ 14 Comments

Tags

fashion, glamor, photography

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Canon 1DS Mark II, 24-70 f/2.8L, f/5.6, 1/60 sec,
manual exposure, 200 ISO

Over the past four years, I’ve been photographing the fashion show put on by the Cornell Design League (CDL) at Cornell University early each Spring. This is always a “dead” time of the year for photography up here in the Northeast, so I do it as a warmup and chance to test new equipment for my weddings and portrait sessions that begin in earnest in May.

Neither the CDL nor Cornell University pays me anything up front to photograph the event, but I often make *some* money from print sales to designers, models, and their relatives, and digital sales to media organizations, like the Cornell Chronicle.

After photographing four years of shows, I’ve learned a bit about what works and doesn’t work when it comes to fashion show photography.

Backstage
Before the show even begins, I like to go backstage and take “getting ready” photos. Much like the “getting ready” photos I often take during the weddings I photograph, these are candid photos of the emotional and
sometimes quirky things that go on before the “big event”. I find them to be more interesting than photographing the event itself, because it’s all unstaged. However, there are commonly special challenges presented during this phase.

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/2.8, 1/80 sec,
aperture priority, 1250 ISO

CDL Backstage

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/2.8, 1/100 sec,
aperture priority, 1250 ISO
CDL Backstage

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/2.8, 1/60 sec,
aperture priority, 1600 ISO


The Cornell fashion show takes place in a large gymnasium-type building with lights 25 feet up near the high ceiling. Even when these are on–they turn them off 45 minutes or so before the show–it’s pretty dark back behind the main stage where everyone is getting ready. Some of the designers bring their own lights because it’s so dark. Needless to say, the lighting is usually insufficient and uneven. And I resist using my flash because it destroys the ambience and candidness of the moment.

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/2.8, 1/50 sec,
aperture priority, 1600 ISO
Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/2.8, 1/250 sec,
aperture priority, 1600 ISO

So, commonly, I’m pushing the limits of my equipment. It’s not uncommon for me to have to open my aperture to its maximum setting of f/2.8 and dial the ISO up to 3200. Even then, the shutter speed for proper exposure can be 1/30, which is pretty slow, even with Image Stabilization (IS). So, the biggest challenge is getting them sharp! A monopod wouldn’t be a bad idea; I usually just steady and brace myself and take 2-3 shots in a row and keep the best one.

CDL Backstage

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/2.8, 1/100 sec,
aperture priority, 1600 ISO
CDL Backstage

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/2.8, 1/400 sec,
aperture priority, 3200 ISO
Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/2.8, 1/25 sec,
aperture priority, 3200 ISO

Show Time – Finding and Securing a Position
Though I haven’t been good about this myself, it’s really a good idea to get to the runway/cat walk early to check out different positions to take before the show starts…and then *reserve* the best spot you can find. I haven’t tried this, but I bet I could put an official-looking sign that says something like: “Reserved for Show Photographer” on the best seat near the stage to keep anyone from sitting there. If that’s not possible, you could bring someone and have them sit there until the show starts and then move to let you in. All this assumes “open seating” and will vary from fashion show to fashion show. It also wouldn’t hurt to talk to the show organizers and see if they might reserve a spot for you.

In any case, you’ll want a relatively central spot near the end of the runway. Personally, I like being slightly off-center because I find a slight angle to be more interesting than straight-on shots. Also, you probably don’t want to be right *at* the stage, if that’s even possible. If you’re right at the stage/runway, you’ll have to use a small aperture and wide angle focus length, which is a bad combination in terms of perspective/distortion, shutter speed, and depth of focus. It’s best to be 4 feet or more back and use a normal or telephoto lens. More on lenses next…

CDL Backstage

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/3.5, 1/60 sec,
manual exposure, 250 ISO
CDL Backstage

Canon 1DS Mark II, 24-70 f/2.8L, f/5.6, 1/80 sec,
manual exposure, 250 ISO

Cameras and Lenses
The last two years, I’ve brought two cameras with me and put a standard zoom (24-70mm or 24-105mm) on one camera and a telephoto zoom (70-200mm or 80-200mm) on the other. I then catch some shots as they first start down the runway with the telephoto lens, and then switch to the standard zoom for the posed shots at the end of the runway. (Tip: be sure to time synch the cameras just before the show so that all the images from both cameras are easily time sequenced afterward.) In the two previous years I shot with one camera connected to a 80-200 f/2.8L lens, a 1.6 crop factor DSLR, and positioned myself well back from the end of the runway. I think the ideal one camera + lens combo would be a 70-200mm lens on a full-frame DSLR and then position yourself within 10 feet of the runway. 70mm on a full-frame camera isn’t so far from a normal (50mm) perspective, and you still have the 200mm to catch them at the beginning of their stroll. If I photograph the show again next year, I think I’ll try this latter one camera configuration. Even though it’s nice to get some of the wide angle shots afforded by the 24-70 on a full-frame camera, I’d be able to get at least 85% of the shots I’d want with only one camera and lens.

Canon 1DS Mark II, 24-70 f/2.8L, f/6.3, 1/80 sec,
manual exposure, 250 ISO

Lighting
The lighting at fashion shows is reasonably good because, presumedly, the designers want the audience to be able to clearly see the clothes they designed! Due to this fact and my fear of annoying everyone around me with my flash, I seldom use flash at a fashion show. Sometimes, however, there are dark areas near the end of the runway that the lighting setup people have missed. If you experience this situation at a fashion show and you have brought two cameras, you can attach the flash to the camera with the standard zoom (e.g., 24-70) and use it only when the models step into the dark area/s when they get near you at the end of the runway.

Canon 1DS Mark II, 24-70 f/2.8L, f/4.0, 1/80 sec,
manual exposure, 200 ISO

Uneven Lighting
Even if the lighting is sufficient to keep your camera’s ISO settings below 800, it can vary along the runway. Also, occasionally they will allow different designers to incorporate different lighting effects into their presentations. This can wreak havoc with your exposures if you’re using a manual exposure setting! So, let’s talk about camera settings…

Camera Settings
Even though I was using shutter speeds of 1/60 and 1/80 sec this last show (I wasn’t thinking straight because I was coming down with a cold), I advise using shutter speeds of 1/200 sec or faster….especially when catching them during their long walk down the runway. They’ll be moving–sometimes running and dancing!–and you want some nice sharp detail. Your aperture for the distant shots when they first start down the runway can be quite large–e.g., f/4.0 or even f/2.8 is not usually problematic. But once they get close to you (like within 10 feet), you’ll want f/6.3 or f/5.6. If you’re using two cameras, the one with the telephoto lens can have the larger aperture and the other one should have the relatively small aperture. If you’re shooting with only one camera, you would be well advised to go with the smaller aperture (f/6.3 or f/5.6) and leave it there.

CDL Backstage

Canon 1DS Mark II, 24-70 f/2.8L, f/6.3, 1/80 sec,
manual exposure, 250 ISO
CDL Backstage

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/3.5, 1/60 sec,
manual exposure, 250 ISO

The biggest question to me in terms of camera setting is which camera mode to use..? The last two years, I’ve photographed the show in manual exposure mode. The goal was to reduce the amount of image processing needed after the show. However, I’ve run into two problems that have undermined this goal: 1) the uneven lighting along the runway means I get darker and lighter photos depending on the variation in light, and 2) I occasionally bump either the shutter or aperture setting and end up with bad exposures.

The main reason for #2 is, I believe, because I’m using two cameras and all those camera switches end up in accidental alterations of settings (due to jostling). I could solve this problem by using only one camera, or putting tape over the controls that keep getting bumped to help keep them in place. The only solution for problem #1 (short of changing the manual settings *as* they walk down the runway!) is to switch to either aperture-priority or shutter-priority mode. So, why don’t I just do that?

CDL Backstage

Canon 1DS Mark II, 24-70 f/2.8L, f/5.6, 1/50 sec,
manual exposure, 200 ISO
CDL Backstage

Canon 5D, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, f/3.2, 1/60 sec,
manual exposure, 160 ISO

I photographed the first two years of fashion shows in aperture priority. But when a model walks out in a pure white or dark black outfit, the exposure the camera calculates automatically can be seriously off! Using shutter-priority makes a lot of sense in some ways–because you know you want to maintain a relatively high shutter speed–but the camera is still calculating the exposure and can be as far off as aperture priority mode. Of course you can also play around with the type of metering the camera is doing (spot, partial, average, etc), but I’ve found that all of them are off in *some* situations.

Unless the lighting varies a *lot*, I think I still prefer manual exposure for the best overall results. But shoot in raw format to best allow for exposure adjustments in post-processing. Also, if you are shooting with two cameras, you can optimize the one with the telephoto lens for the lighting at the beginning and/or middle of the runway, and the other camera with the standard/normal lens for the lighting at the end of the runway.

Canon 1DS Mark II, 24-70 f/2.8L, f/3.5, 1/40 sec,
manual exposure, 3200 ISO


So those are my tips and “lessons learned”. I hope they help you should you too come across the opportunity to shoot a fashion show. Fashion shows can definitely be interesting and a lot of fun!..:-).



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